How steep is a slope of 7%

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Theme: Incline at overpasses and underpasses

verifier - 24.02.20 21:00


Hello,

I already had a similar thread about my station apron. I did tests today. From 3 - 5% three-part multiple units (e.g. Piko Talent 2) up to a double-deck train with 6 carriages and a BR 147.
The slope was absolutely linear and straight. All of the multiple units had no problem starting up almost silky smooth even within the incline.
The double-decker train managed this up to around 3.8%. A "start-up" took place up to 4.5%, but it was a little rough.

Conclusion:
Since my underpass is only used for S-Bahn and relatively short local trains up to 6 simple cars, I am now planning an average gradient of 4.5%. The descent will be 6.5% on average.

Again about the incline: The effort for the trains is also mitigated by the fact that the ascent takes place immediately after departure.

Have a nice evening
Manfred

To the last answer


# 1 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

Roger - 24.02.20 21:17


Hello Manfred,

In the conclusion there is no information about the rounding!
And in the aftermath you raise the suspicion that they have been forgotten - and thus not taken into account ...

means
Roger

# 2 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

gosswald - 24.02.20 21:22


Hello Manfred,
does that still look halfway good?
at 2.5% I already have problems with it
means
Günter

# 3 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

AlexanderJesse - 24.02.20 22:11


Even in the original there are extreme gradients at flying crossings or branches, up to 5% is worked. But then the incline, which is also very short (just enough to cross other tracks), is approached at the highest possible speed. With the kinetic energy, this type of incline is almost ignored by the train.

Starting on an incline is always a problem ...

Greetings Alexander

# 4 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

Mr.Rail - 24.02.20 22:25


Hello,

Quote - Answer No .: | Surname:

I am now planning an average gradient of 4.5%. The descent will be 6.5% on average.



There are no trains in the opposite direction / on the opposite track?

Best wishes,

Simon

# 5 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

Someone Andres - 24.02.20 23:25


Moin Manfred,

I just want to leave the note that Piko multiple units have 2 engines with 2 traction tires each. They have enough power without a doubt.
Vehicles from other manufacturers are equipped much more economically. So if you only drive Talent, GTW and Mops (440) that might be ok. But direction 420, 425 could be quite tight. And who knows what's to come. But if necessary, the trains can also be modified.

Greetings Moritz

# 6 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

verifier - 25.02.20 08:51


Good morning and thank you for your comments, in detail:

The roundings are well planned, the extreme gradient takes place in the middle on a straight track.

Examples of my underpasses and overpasses are the train stations in Munich, Würzburg or Stuttgart, where the gradients in the S-Bahn feed are sometimes extreme. I want to recreate that.

I separate exits and entrances to the station so there are no "opposite directions" or "opposite track", but more traffic because no routes are blocked.

In the previous tests, I have also tested starting up on an incline. The test as an extreme case. But there will not be because the underpasses will be driven through.

I'm still "tinkering", but I'm fascinated by the topic of the feeders, and the model of the Stuttgart train station, as in our track, is fantastically reproduced. The entire theme of the facility, which is now under construction, describes the last few kilometers before the train station, although only half of it is shown. The other half is already a "shadow yard".

Photos are coming, it's still too early for that. And as a planning there are only 6B sketches. I have to try a lot first ...

Best regards
Manfred

# 7 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

Roger - 25.02.20 09:18


Moin Manfred,

so somehow you seem to be calculating a bit ...

Quote - Answer No .: 0 | Surname:

A "start-up" took place up to 4.5%, but it was a little rough.



Quote - Answer No .: 0 | Surname:

I am now planning an average gradient of 4.5%.



Quote - Answer No .: 6 | Surname:

The roundings are well planned, the extreme gradient takes place in the middle on a straight track.


and how big is it then? 6%, 7% ???
In any case, mathematically larger than "a little rough" starting at 4.5% would still be possible!

So something is wrong there!

greeting
Roger

# 8 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

MarkusR - 25.02.20 10:14


# 9 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

Elmar W. - 25.02.20 10:51


Hello!

In addition to the pictures linked by Markus, I would like to add the information that the 420 series was specially designed in the early 1970s for routes with steep uphill and downhill sections, as planned for the Munich S-Bahn.

That could mean that not every railcar series has to be able to cope with such gradients.

Best regards
Elmar

# 10 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

VictorPM - 25.02.20 14:41


That's right, the 420 series has all-wheel drive Bo'Bo '+ Bo'Bo' + Bo'Bo '. Nowadays there is hardly anything like that, and certainly not with model railcars

# 11 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

verifier - 25.02.20 14:56


Hello roger,

the one with the "Rough at 4.5% approaching" was a BR 147 with 6 double-decker cars. That could only be seen in the test where the limit is.

That with the "mean 4.5%" was wrong of me. It is now the slope in the middle of the entire slope over a section of 75 cm. In front of and behind is the flattening transition into the normal range.

I promise: Photos will come, but it will take some time because I have to "work out" the area behind it first. But I could only determine that if I knew what was being built in the front area of ​​the system

Best regards
Manfred

PS: The PIKO Talent 2 trains seem to be on par with the Munich S-Bahn ....

# 12 | Incline at overpasses and underpasses

MarkusR - 25.02.20 22:17


Hello Elmar,

the ascent and descent sections of the Munich S-Bahn are also quite steep at 32 per thousand, but the length of the is still manageable. The ramps are always short.
The longest ascent of the Stuttgart S-Bahn is 4.5 km in a row, it goes up or down the mountain with 35 per thousand. After a short downward gradient of 38 per mille, there is another uphill gradient of 38 per mille. Driving up was never a problem in Stuttgart, when driving down there were regular complaints from passengers due to the strong heat and smoke development. Stuttgart therefore got two series with ET420 and reinforced brakes.

The newer Arnold ET420 are also really good climbing masters

greetings
Markus

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